Screens To Routines: How to make sure you are helping and not hurting your children’s mental health 

November 5, 2024 | Episode 28

Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast

SPEAKERS: Marcus Thorpe, Lindsey Gordon, Dr. Farris

Marcus Thorpe  00:00

On TV shows, educational apps, video games, social media. Parents can agree it is difficult to avoid screen time across the board, welcome to the Wellness Conversation an OhioHealth Podcast. I'm Marcus Thorpe.

 

Lindsey Gordon  00:25

And I'm Lindsay Gordon to help us navigate how to establish healthy habits for all ages. We're joined by OhioHealth Child Psychiatrist Joseph Ferris, Dr. Ferris, thanks so much for being with us.

 

Dr. Farris  00:36

Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

 

Marcus Thorpe  00:38

I tell you what, it is tough to know where to begin with this topic. It really has blown up, as we know in recent years. Generally speaking, our dependency on that digital device has certainly increased now you work specifically with youth, we know that. So let's start with what you do at OhioHealth and how you really help patients and their families kind of navigate some of these really difficult spaces.

 

Dr. Farris  00:57

Yeah. Thanks. Marcus, well, I'm a psychiatrist primarily located up in Marion, Ohio, and been seeing patients there now since November of 2021 and one of my main goals for my patients as I like to educate and advocate, and so I really like to let people know everything that's going on with why they're seeing me, you know, problems, medications, diagnosis, therapies, and I really want to be there so they learn about why they're seeing me and advocate for them, and what they need to do to get even further along.

 

Marcus Thorpe  01:32

Yeah, it's tough. I mean, ages and stages, we're all, you know, you're a mom, I'm a dad and and we have kids in different age groups, so I'm sure the kids that you see are certainly coming to you with very different, specific needs for each and every family.

 

Lindsey Gordon  01:45

Absolutely, what sort of trends do you see in this space that you may find concerning?

 

Dr. Farris  01:51

Yeah, you know what? I definitely at this age being a father, also two sons, 1816, live through the New Age, the screen time, you know. So the amount of screen time that people all ages, you know, are on their phones, TVs, tablets, iPads. Big, big, big, big concern.

 

Marcus Thorpe  02:11

Yeah and navigating that too, right? I mean, you want them to have some flexibility, some freedom. I remember sometimes I would be at dinner with my wife, and you just want to be able to have an adult conversation. So you take out the iPad and you give it to them, and you let them sit there. And then part of you starts to feel like, is this the right thing to do? And you know, I used to read books when I was a kid at the table, but is that something that you see in your world? Are you constantly going, Holy cow, there's another kid with a screen, and that kid's walking with a phone, and they're only like, they're only, like, six or seven years old.

 

Dr. Farris  02:44

Yes, oh, I can't. It's, even gotten to the point where my sons have gotten so used to not having a screen at dinner time or going out to a restaurant that they'll be pointing out, you know, kids with earphones on, watching an iPad, playing stuff. It just, yeah, it's everywhere. That's amazing.

 

Lindsey Gordon  03:02

What kind of trouble can that create if we're dependent on that? Personally, speaking, we love our pediatrician, and at the end of every appointment with my kids, we always spend time to talk about establishing healthy habits, and screen time is a big part of that, and how as parents, we have to lead the way and set a good example, right? But how do we how do we do that? How do we create a healthy foundation or reset, if we think we need a reset, how do we do that?

 

Dr. Farris  03:31

Oh, you know what? I definitely think one thing is having a conversation with your kids, no matter what age. And I think the most important thing is being a role model. So it starts by what they see they walk into a room, are you on your tablet or your phone? Are you talking to them? You put your phone down when you talk to your kids, you know when you're at dinner, is the TV off? Is the phone off? And so I think it's really, really important to be a role model for your kids. It's just amazing that I was even getting ready to come down here and talk. I was just looking up a couple things. And even just 8- to 12-year-olds, you know, statistics show four to six hours a day. Wow. Teenagers, you know, over nine hours a day on screen. It just, I was like, looking...

 

Lindsey Gordon  04:18

These are kids that don't have phones yet, right? Like, in some cases, right? We're talking like they're using an iPad or watching TV.

 

Dr. Farris  04:26

That's correct, And even just at school, Chromebooks, you know? So you're on, you're on your screens at school all day. Chromebooks open, powered on.

 

Lindsey Gordon  04:36

but how do we make sure kids don't fall behind? Like, when you talk about Chromebooks, right? That's a very big part of the curriculum. I'm kind of jumping around, I think, a little bit in our outline. But you know, my kids know how to swipe right, and they know how to hold my phone to my face to unlock my phone. Okay. So I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm talking more like you. The Chromebooks that kids depend on in schools. Kids have to keep up with this technology in a way, because it's part of the curriculum. So, is there such thing as, like, a good way to do this? Is there? Is there anything that you know good education apps? Is that real?

 

Dr. Farris  05:16

You know what it is. It is real. So, and I think that's the important part, because where I think screen time takes you down a bad road is when you're using it to babysit, you're using it to occupy time, right? No exercise, no time with family, no time with friends, apps, games, you know, no creative time. And so I think that's more the biggest concern is not so much educational use of it. Even as children, you know, go to use it, you don't want to rely on it, and so I think it's a big play of limiting outside of school. That's where I think us as parents, you know, can be a big help in terms of, okay, you're out of school, Chromebooks closed. Go over what homework your child has, you know, I make it a point to ask my kids, you know, okay, what's what are we doing tonight? What are you looking at? How much is going to be on that Chromebook, and how much is not going to be on that Chromebook and being active part. And I think it's really important for parents to be an active part of their child's education.

 

Marcus Thorpe  06:19

I think about my kids, the ages 14 and 12, both boys and at that age, their social media use or their computer use is very much tied to their social lives, right? This is how these kids are communicating with each other, so there is some stress on my part as a parent to make sure that they still have some of those lifelines to their friends while still limiting it and encouraging them to still meet face to face with their friends. Can you talk about kind of the push and pull that is teenagers from the kids that you see and talk with about the need to still connect, but also that desire to want them off of their screens at the same time?

 

Dr. Farris  06:57

Yeah, no. So that is one of the nice things. I mean, being able to talk to your friends, not feeling isolated is a great thing about social media, about apps, about the phones. One thing I've definitely found is it's, yeah, it's it. I, you know, being a parent, my sons have some social media. You know, being a child psychiatrist, they have, they have Instagram. And you know, one thing I find important is being able to be friends with them on Instagram. You know, I think that's a really important thing. Being able to follow your child on social media, it has to be a mature discussion. And I think it comes down to being open and honest, you know, laying down some ground rules, okay, you know, I'm not going to post on your site. I'm not going to embarrass you. I'm not going to be uncool, dad, but in the same sense, you know, I'm going to check on you, I'm going to see what you're posting. And it's nice to know, and I think kids would like to appreciate that they may not tell you, but it's nice to know that they can always tell their friends. Yeah, my dad's following me, you know, I'm not going to do that or say that, and it's nice to have a little bit of confidence in knowing that you know you guys can come to an agreement, show some maturity. And I think it allows your children to be able to rely on you for assistance, helping you know guidance.

 

Marcus Thorpe  08:15

Which is trust and communication, which is what you're talking about. Yeah, very important. Yeah, very important.

 

Lindsey Gordon  08:19

And then from a mental health perspective, I mean, that's kind of like in the safety security space, right? How do you convey to your child that likes don't mean self-worth?

 

Dr. Farris  08:30

Oh, oh, you know what that's I think that's a really important part, and it's hard because, like you said, that's probably the downside of social media, is the inherent things that you can't control what you see, you know, be it bullying, self-worth, filters, you know, now, everything is filtered, right? You know, you see a picture and you like this, and if nobody liked it fast enough, you know, was it not a good picture? Do my friends not like me anymore? And it's really, really difficult, that fear of missing out, you know, the FOMO, and that just gets amplified, you know, with teenagers and social media in terms of posting pictures and self-worth. And it's a difficult thing to do, yeah,

 

Marcus Thorpe  09:16

what are you seeing? You know, I want to take a step back just from just the social media part, or just the screens part of it. And I kind of want a snapshot from what you're seeing and hearing without talking specific cases, obviously. But big picture, what are we seeing with these kids? Are we seeing more anxiety? Are we seeing depression? Are we seeing the inability to focus because they're in this instant gratification stage with some of their electronics from your practice perspective, and the work you do on the medical field. What are you seeing?

 

Dr. Farris  09:47

Yeah, you know what? I would say, all three of those for sure. So the biggest one I would say is, you know, TikTok. So I would say, the amount of people that come in saying that they think they have some. Because they saw something on TikTok, so to speak, write a video on ADHD, depression, anxiety, autism. The nice part about it is it's quite informative, you know. So it does give you a chance to get education out there. Unfortunately, though, a lot of screen time reinforces some negative stuff, you know. So ADHD, you know attention, you know concern. So when you're used to having things being able to swipe, click, page through it relatively fast, it is hard to really develop a good sense of attention when, when things are happening so quick, you know, you're not sitting there concentrating and focused for 10 or 15, minutes, like what I remember, to read a paragraph, you know, to read a short chapter. And when you can scroll through things and highlight things, it's really hard to develop attention. That screen time leads to isolation. You know, like you had mentioned, depression, being alone. You know, anxiety, you see things, you hear things, a lot easier for people to comment on, things, be critical of things. And those three things you know are really more problematic, and you know, often related to screen time.

 

Lindsey Gordon  11:16

Yep, when you started your career in medicine and in this healthcare space, did you see this when you started? Or has it increased?

 

Dr. Farris  11:24

Oh, it's big change, you know, it's fun. It's a topic, you know, I talk about a lot. The biggest motivating factor, you know, when I started in kids was driving... parents, taking away the keys, that by far and away, was the biggest reason of conflict. And it's hard to tell you, the last time I saw somebody, the major source of conflict was losing the car keys. Now it's losing the phone. And I Yeah, and it's that causes a major, major, major, major problem. And it was, yeah, it was car. And I can't remember the first Yeah, maybe half of my career was losing their car.

 

Lindsey Gordon  12:06

What an example. Yeah, what an example.

 

Dr. Farris  12:10

Now I can't, I can't tell you the last time the presenting conflict was, I can't drive, right? Just not allowed to go get in the car and go see my friend, my boyfriend, my girlfriend, go meet, go meet everybody at Dairy Queen, yeah, exactly what we did.

 

Marcus Thorpe  12:25

We used to go to the movies all the time. And now these kids aren't seeing each other doing anything. It's, it's really interesting. I guess the question is, and this may be an unanswerable question at this point, but where are we going with screens? It's, it's, look. It's impossible to put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point like it is out there. These devices are not going away. More access and those kind of things. What change or what do we need to see happen? How can we support our kids and strengthen our families, even though we know that these are going to be part of our lives?

 

Dr. Farris  12:58

Yeah, you know what it is. It's part of our lives. It's part of my life now, you know, all day I got my laptop open, looking at charts, doing telehealth visits, you know, it's part of my life. And I think what's really important is if everybody's working together, you know, and I think with children, parents and the schools, and I think it's even more important to have extracurricular activities outside of school, you know, be it volunteering, be it sports, be it Girl Scouts, be it playing in the band, be it, you know, volunteering, it's really, really important to be able to do things that aren't electronic related and I think once again, parents can be role models, you know, you could do a lot of things, you know, as a family, that don't involve electronics, you know, playing games, cooking dinner together. There's a lot of things you can do to get away from the screen time. And I think that's a really important thing to be focused on.

 

12:59

It's it hits so home when you say that too, because I think about myself when my kids are walking in and I'm on my phone or something's going on that maybe I don't need to be, it's not work related, sometimes it's just me, you know, vegging out or doing something like that. And when they come in, it's important to put that phone down and look them in the eye and have a real conversation before they all spread and go their own way too, because sometimes that 10 minutes is all you're going to get from them for a couple of hours. So it's, it's food for thought.

 

Lindsey Gordon  14:24

It really is. It really is. I mean, we definitely use it as a tool too. I mean, when our oldest son dropped naps, but the baby still naps, we started using, you know, an hour of Blippi as like our, or bluey one of the bees as like our, you know, chill time, but I can see how quickly that would spiral if it just extended another hour, oh, and then another hour, because sometimes the baby sleeps like three hours on a good day. So I can see how that could happen. What's your hope for the future, especially when it comes to teens and screens? How do we do. Pave the way for a happy teen with screens as part of our lives?

 

Dr. Farris  15:04

Yeah you know what it's I think, you know, fortunately, you know, I think we're becoming more aware, and I think the earlier you could start, the better. And so I think with young ones out there, just like you said, limiting it, you know, keeping it short, and doing our best to incorporate non electronic things, coloring, reading, puzzles, you know, anything you can do that may be quiet so the little ones don't wake up for a nap. You know, teenagers, I would best thing, I would say, is get out there and do something with them. You know, go for a walk with each other. Learn To Play Guitar with your you know, your son or daughter both go somewhere, get a guitar, sit down and pull up YouTube and take lessons to each other. You know, find a way to do something with the people in your house. And I think, you know, you'd go a long way to capture in some good memories and healthy young adults as they grow up.

 

Marcus Thorpe  15:59

I think it's really important to talk about, as we kind of wrap up, this portion of our discussion is just the safety factor, too. You know, you deal with kids and families all day long, maybe not allowing computers with shut doors in their rooms, and those kind of things you talk about just generalized safety and recommendations that you would have for families to try to adopt, to make sure that they know what's happening and that, you know, there's a lot of really horrible people out there that are doing their best to try to move in on these children through electronic ways. And I think it's important to mention.

 

Dr. Farris  16:35

Yeah, without a doubt. So I mean, the amount of just inappropriate behavior on the internet is just staggering, and it's just a hard, true fact of today's world. And so I definitely get a great idea in regarding open door policy. You know, when you're on social media or using a screen, I think being able to follow your children's accounts you know on the screen, knowing the passwords, you know on the screen, there's software out there, you know, where you can monitor websites and what's going on. And I think that's important to consider when you have young kids, children that have phones, that maybe need a phone to when they're alone, you know, when you're at work, you know. And I get it, and I think as they get older, it's important to have a discussion with them. And I think everything starts with an open and honest talk with your children. It's important as they get older, and what may work for one family may not for another, but I think as they get older and enter into their teens, about the trust and about being able to look at their phones, and having an open discussion is really important.

 

Marcus Thorpe  17:44

I was telling Lindsay before you got here that I have a 14 year old son, and we had one type of phone that I had the hardest time keeping track of what he was doing. I would put up barriers that I thought were barriers, and he was finding rooms around the barriers, and he was getting extra time when I thought he was on and so I couldn't keep track of it, and so I did some research. And here's the bit of advice. Information is out there for you to find out about what phone is best. How can you keep track of your kid? And we completely changed from one type of phone to another type of phone. He still has access to the same apps that he wants, and now I'm on this other app where I can literally shut his phone down by pushing a button, or I know how much time he spent on everything. And some people may say, Oh, you're crushing your kid. You're on your kid all the time. This is just peace of mind that we needed in our family, and it's only been a week, but I'm telling you, it feels different for us as parents, because we know what he's doing, and it's peace of mind that we had to have, and I feel great about it.

 

Dr. Farris  18:45

So, yeah. Then you know what? At the end of the day, the better you feel, the better you're going to just feel around your son, and the more time you're going to spend to each other, and you know, able to talk about a problem and come to resolution and fix it, and it's nice to know that, you know you didn't ignore it and you talked about it.

 

Marcus Thorpe  19:04

And he said it was a relief, honestly, my 14 year old son said, in some ways, when that time's up, and I know it's kind of a relief that I have to put it down. I'm like, Whoa.

 

Lindsey Gordon  19:14

We've come a long way from the egg timer in the kitchen for the dial of internet use.

 

Dr. Farris  19:18

I've had, I've had people, yeah, family just say, you know, we actually sat on the couch and we watched a TV show together, like back in the old days, you know, and we all laughed, you know, at a joke. We watched an episode, you know, for a half hour, and it was the first time, I think we all sat in the same room, agreed on something and laughed. And it's good.

 

Lindsey Gordon  19:37

There's, there's something to be said about those moments. They're not minimal, that they are well. Dr Ferris, this has been so informative, and we appreciate you talking about all these things on how to navigate screens and work them into our families in a healthy way. We do like to have some fun with these podcasts where we get to know you a little bit better, and we have a fun round. You ready for that?

 

Dr. Farris  19:58

Let's go for it.

 

Marcus Thorpe  19:59

All right? So. So obviously, you're working a lot, you're meeting with families a lot. When you're able to kind of get away from that. What do you do when you're not just enjoying the work you do?

 

Dr. Farris  20:08

You know what one thing, it's funny. It's kind of something that we just talked about. One of my favorite things to do is, you know, I have a wife and two sons, is just go and do something we've never done before, a new restaurant, a new place to visit, a new weekend trip, just something that we've never done before, that we can say we did for the first time with each other.

 

Marcus Thorpe  20:32

I like that. So your kids are 18 and 16 of both boys, right? So I'm kind of forecasting in my mind that Do they still think you're cool? That's what I'm worried about. Because right now, I think my kids still think I'm kind of cool, but whenever they get to that age, do they still?

 

Dr. Farris  20:46

Not, not even close. So far from being with cringe is the word cringe,

 

Marcus Thorpe  20:54

Saying the word cool means I'm not cool. I already know that.

 

Dr. Farris  20:56

And it was like, all of a sudden, it felt like it was overnight. Oh my gosh. You know, I was like, yeah, and then, no, you're crushing me. Dr Ferris, you know, it's a stage. We've all hit that.

 

Lindsey Gordon  21:11

Have you all tried playing pickleball together? Maybe that's the solution here.

 

Dr. Farris  21:14

No, we have not. That's you've done. You know what? They were both tennis players and so, um...

 

Marcus Thorpe  21:21

They'll kill you.

 

Dr. Farris  21:22

Oh I know they, Oh, it'll be bad, but, but that would be a good thing. We had something we haven't all done.

 

Lindsey Gordon  21:26

Yeah, we've done podcasts about that and how it's like a good sport for any age, something everyone can do. You don't really have to know too much about it. It's pretty good. It's a good thing. Um, you mentioned you love exploring new places. So if you guys could go anywhere in the world as a family, cost wasn't a factor, time wasn't a factor. And you could go, where would it be?

 

Dr. Farris  21:47

You know, the one place that I've always just wanted to do was Bora, Bora. Just go somewhere. Be on the water. Just relax like you see in the magazine. Just seeing a magazine, that one where you you're always flying, and you pull out that little magazine and you know, it says, you know, direct, you know, flights, you know, Bora, Bora Fiji, something like that. That would be, oh, yeah, that would be, that would be a top one.

 

Marcus Thorpe  22:19

Take your wife, leave your kids.

 

Dr. Farris  22:22

That's where I want to go. But, yeah, with them, you know, they're, they're beach people. They, you know, some are nice and funny, I guess, you know, maybe out there on those, there's no sand. So, yeah, you know, maybe Hawaii would be something I've always a place. I've always wanted to see.

 

Lindsey Gordon  22:36

There you go. I hope you guys get there as a family unit someday.

 

Marcus Thorpe  22:39

That would be nice children and mental health is so important. And you've been a critical component of what we're doing here at OhioHealth. So we're so appreciative of what you're doing, not only with your work, but then being on this podcast and kind of opening some eyes and ears to what's going on. So thanks for your time and for your expertise. We really appreciate it.

 

Dr. Farris  22:57

Yeah, I really appreciate it. Was nice being here.

 

Marcus Thorpe  22:59

Yeah you did a great job. And we'd like to thank you for joining us for this episode of the Wellness Conversation an OhioHealth podcast. Before we wrap up, we do invite you to follow us on all major social channels, making sure you stay up to date on any new episodes and other health and wellness topics. If you're looking for more information on OhioHealth services and locations, just go to ohiohealth.com.

 

Lindsey Gordon  23:18

The information in this episode will also be available in written form on the podcast page. Thanks for joining us and be sure to subscribe as we continue our exploration of important health and wellness topics with OhioHealth experts.